A great politician of radical origin, but over the years he followed his liberal political idelogies. He has a great political, academic and ethical trajectory. We are talking about nothing more and nothing less, of the great recognized and appreciated Dr. Ricardo Lopez Murphy. Reading the note made by Infobae, I wanted to translate it into English and share the first part with you. Of course, we will be inviting him in the next few days, even Life with The Freedom Post team.
Ricardo López Murphy: “Cristina Kirchner is the one responsible for this dreadful crisis, she cannot escape”.
For the deputy for United Republicans, Argentina needs a “sweeping victory” over Peronism in order to implement a far-reaching reform plan. He foresees a defeat of the Frente de Todos: “They are not coming back”, he said. The risk of a “failed state”.
By Facundo Chaves – Journalist Infobae Argentine
Ricardo López Murphy harshly criticized Cristina Kirchner and blamed her for the current crisis.
National Congressman Ricardo López Murphy does not hesitate and answers when asked what he would do if he were president. “If it were my turn to be in Rivadavia’s chair…”, he affirms, but he knows that will and desire are not enough. That is why he states that, beyond candidacies, his priority is to convey the need to recognize the magnitude of the problem Argentina is facing and to agree on a program of economic, social and institutional reforms of the same magnitude as the crisis to be implemented in 2023.
Although he clarifies that there is no risk for Alberto Fernández to fulfill his mandate – “continuity is a valuable asset that democracy has”- he points out that the Vice-President is “responsible” for the current situation: “It was her bad design that brought us to this point. Cristina Kirchner’s leadership has been a catastrophe”.
He speaks of “failures of a colossal dimension” and, therefore, foresees a defeat of Peronism in 2023: “They are not coming back”, he risks.
Ricardo López Murphy: “Peronism boasted that they knew how to govern, but now they have shown that they do not know how to manage”.
In more than one hour of interview with Infobae, the leader of Republicans United talks about economy, the internal of Juntos por el Cambio, his differences with Javier Milei’s liberatorios, explains the content of his proposal and summarizes: “Within the framework of legality, we are going to return to prosperity and development and we are going to do it in union and freedom”.
In the last public interviews you stated that there are governance risks for the future government. What are you referring to?
In Argentina it is necessary to implement a broad and ambitious program of deep reforms. It is not a financial program, it is much more than that. But what I am proposing requires, as a condition, a sweeping triumph, without a sweeping triumph the problem of governability in Argentina will be dominant. The country has a very big governance deficit which is expressed in the advance of organized crime, of delinquency, a formidable disorder in the streets, but also in the incapacity of the government and the opposition, due to the parity of forces and the difficulty to talk about objective problems, which generate difficulties to govern.
The Government is confident that the situation is going to improve, they do not have this hypothesis of a growing worsening of the crisis…
The situation is going to be very critical in November and December next year, I see a growing deterioration. That is my working hypothesis because I see the interest rate rising, the uncontrolled fiscal, monetary and income policies. There are growing tensions and errors and there is a lack of dollars. It is a very complicated scenario and that is why it will be necessary to take very important measures to organize the Argentine economy and society, which will require very clear majorities. Those majorities must arise from an overwhelming triumph. Once this triumph has been obtained, the government coalition can be reinforced, but it must be reinforced on the basis of strength and not to make up for weaknesses. If we also fragment the force, it will be a catastrophe.
The polls are now giving very low ratings to the Government …..
I believe that today the opposition opinion is much higher than the 41% that the opposition had in 2019, but the issue here is to think that between now and 2023 we have to seek a mandate, a clear support and do it with an extraordinarily optimistic narrative, as the one I have about the possibility of prosperity and recovery of Argentina. We are going to have to fix the country in an exemplary way and have several periods of government where confidence will always be in doubt… “Will the people who have degraded the country to the extreme that has degraded it come back? I think they are not coming back.
Are you sure that Peronism is not coming back? Look that many people thought the same thing in 2015…
Yes, I think so. And that idea that they are not coming back again will give us autonomy and self-confidence. One of the big mistakes Argentina has made is to appeal to foreign savings and to think that things can be done without our own effort. I do not believe that, but that the country has to dramatically increase the rate of investment, job creation and domestic savings and that is crucial for development.
There is no chance that they will change and recover.
If they were smart they would have to, because the opportunity is there. I have never seen an opportunity like this, but in all issues they react the other way around. There is an exceptional opportunity for agriculture, agribusiness and the only thing they dream about is to impose more taxes. When what happens is that if you impose more taxes you contract the supply, nobody disputes that. These people read the signals backwards. When the temperature is high, they fill you with sweaters and sweaters and when the temperature is 10 below zero, they expect you to go out naked in the street. Cuba was five times the Dominican Republic and today it is five sevenths. Venezuela too, but they admire Chávez and Castro, they admire catastrophes and they want us to go out in the cold without clothes and in the heat with gamulans. They do not decode reality.
You speak of a sweeping triumph but this implies that Peronism will have a sweeping defeat as well.
I think it is going to have it.
Why?
Because the deterioration of the social life we have at this moment and the surveys reveal a brutal fall in image is nothing today compared to what it is going to be in 12 months.
Why is there so much security and there cannot be a recovery or a reaction from the ruling party to reorganize politics and economy?
There is no margin. We are witnessing a failure that is not minor, it is not a light failure. It is a failure that has led them to internal confrontations, to a fall as never seen before in the polls and they do not have a candidate. If one looks among the candidates, I don’t know, maybe Scioli because he is not there. But there are no people among them who can be candidates. They are unpresentable to the public opinion.
Cristina Kirchner distanced herself from the Government, she has been differentiating herself in her speech and in her actions.
Cristina is the one responsible for this dreadful crisis we are living, for this catastrophe. She cannot escape because she is the one who designed this government. She is the one who proposed this scheme. That the others have been inept was to be expected, because of their hesitations, because of the confusion of the problems we are facing, because of the misreading of the international situation. But the one who exercised power was Cristina Kirchner. After this mess I do not think there will be a second chance. Although I do not believe in second chances, in this opportunity it is very clear that there will not be a second chance.
Do you think the Vice-President assumes that responsibility?
She could say “I made a mistake, I never thought I was going to make such a big mistake and this puts me out of the public life. It is difficult to explain how I made such a big mistake as the one I made”, but she is not going to do it.
Is the root of these governance problems economic or political?
The disorder has an institutional root, which is a bad electoral design and a bad transfer of resources. In addition, there is a disorder in the vision of the world and where we want to go. Our foreign policy is chaotic: one day we say one thing and the next day we say the opposite. That makes the relationship with our neighbors chaotic. In the best circumstances we have ever had historically, we are in crisis, we have never had more favorable circumstances and we have a crisis of a thousand devils.
And what place does the economic aspect have in this scenario?
We have economic problems of bad management. A country that has the second largest gas reserves in the world brings gas by ships and pipelines. If we explain this, it is very difficult to understand. It is very difficult to explain to parliamentarians from Europe or North America that there is no sand in the Sahara. This happens because of the incapacity of this government but also because we are isolated from the credit and investment markets, we are going through a formidable crisis of credibility and this will require that we have governments of the strength of the generation of the 80’s, capable of imposing order, guiding policy and stabilizing. Between 1890 and 1945 we had less inflation than the United States and more growth. There was a time when Argentine society knew how to have a basic order, which requires governance and the capacity to reform institutions that work very badly, such as savings for old age, social plans, the labor market: we have more people in the black economy than in white. Indicators of failure in education of a colossal dimension.
The diagnosis of the failure and deterioration of conditions in Argentina is clear, what is the solution or how to address these problems?
A program equivalent to the dimension of the failure is needed. A program of an extraordinary scope, not only in the economic area, but also in the institutional, health, defense and security areas. It is not a financial program that is needed, which of course we need, but not only that. If we had a financial vision of the problem, it would be crazy.
As a former minister, you have been confronted with the fact that when a decision is taken, those affected may put up resistance that may cause the fall of the plan, of the minister or even of an entire government….
Therein lies the virtue of a broad coalition and the virtue of a sweeping victory. With a very broad coalition, with a precise program and clear rules of the game, this problem is solved. All those governments you mention, since the beginning of democracy there were, since Alfonsín, who failed in the first initiatives because he did not have majorities in the Senate. After 40 years of deterioration, we must have a coalition capable of making the reforms that Argentina needs and which are delayed.
Let’s make an exercise that you are sitting in the Rivadavia’s armchair in the year 2023, what do you say to the unionists and the piqueteros. You already know in advance the answer and the reaction….
Neither the piqueteros nor the unionists govern here. Here the rule of law governs and they will face a government that is ready to act. With their consent or their resistance.
With will alone, is there not a risk of instability and conflicts?
Not at all. If the majority obtained in the elections is overwhelming, none. Otherwise, we have lost the State and become a failed State. If a democratic government, with overwhelming majorities, is challenged in the monopoly of force, it no longer exists as such. In 2023 there must be clarity that everyone will accept, out of intelligence or because they will have no choice, the rules set by the rule of law.
And what should those rules be?
Those that correspond to a modern country, respectful of legality, that does not tolerate that there are liberated areas or sectors that behave in a mafia-like manner or that want to alter the freedoms established by our Constitution. There will be no more challenges to power. That is over, because otherwise Argentina will no longer be viable. There will be no challenges neither from organized crime nor from boats fishing in our exclusive zones, nor from airplanes flying in our skies with impunity, nor from people seizing lands or factories or interrupting the normal transit of people. This does not happen in other countries and should not continue to happen in Argentina. If it were my turn to be in Rivadavia’s chair, I don’t think I would need to wear mustaches again for everyone to understand.
Some people might characterize the government as repressive…
It is going to be an elected government, with, I hope, an overwhelming majority that wants to get out of this disorder, this decadence, this stagnation and this acute national frustration that we have.
Alberto Fernández with his two main officials of the economic area: Guzmán and Kulfas.
I want to clearly mark the magnitude of the reform that must be promoted, but first I want everyone to be aware of the deterioration of Argentina, with the country risk we have and the inability to take advantage of an immense potential. Why is it necessary to create a special regime for oil and gas production? Later it will be for lithium, for wheat, for corn. They cannot think about the problem in a general framework, it is always the finger: I give you this and I give you that. It is a chaotic thing that no country in the world does. There has never been an opportunity to sell wheat like this, because it has an extravagant price and the government dreams of taxing it to reduce the wheat supply… it is all the other way around.
In the Government they say that they have to take these measures to take care of the table of the Argentines….
Of all the countries around us, who has an exchange regime like ours? Or a chaos in the streets like ours? We live in a phenomenal disorder, at the same time that we have the best conditions that Argentina has ever had. We have never had more favorable parameters than these and we are in a dreadful crisis. This gives an idea of the bad design, of the catastrophe that Cristina Kirchner’s leadership has been.
Now these favorable external conditions, with a correction, would not allow us to get out of this economic crisis?
In Venezuela they had conditions as favorable as ours and that country has been able to make the GDP per capita fall 90%. There is software and ideas that have been catastrophic. In Cuba, in Venezuela and in Nicaragua or in North Korea. The Chinese political regime that one can admit was able to accumulate investments at an extreme pace as no country had ever done, to think that this political regime is a model, is an atrocity. China has the most repressive regime in history and it is the one admired by Cristina Kirchner. When she does not admire that, she admires Putin, who invades neighboring countries. Here we have to locate the problem well. We have a political leadership of the State, of the political force that has been catastrophic in its decisions and tries, incredibly, to escape from its responsibilities. This is a problem, but it is not the only one, nor the most important one.
And what is the second or the most important problem Argentina has?
The lack of an intelligent design. An intelligent design would allow an explosion of gas production, gas derivatives, chemicals, petrochemicals, fertilizers. With those fertilizers we would double the harvests, with the doubled harvests 20 million tons would grow, I see an enormous potential, as it was in the second third of the 19th century. That is where Alberdi’s lucidity for the design of institutions and that vision of having to occupy the desert came together with Sarmiento’s lucidity, who discovered the potential of human capital, a century before the Nobel prizes. With a government that prioritized Argentina’s development. In 30 or 40 years, Argentina became one of the first countries in the world.
So the key to recovery would only be leadership and intelligent design?
No. We were also lucky. The invention of the train, the steamship, the refrigerated ships helped. Now we have what would be the equivalent of the train and the reefer, the steamship, but what’s missing is lucid design and leadership. That – don’t take this in an arrogant way – in the last effort of my life, I am trying to convey. That the need for an institutional redesign is understood and that Argentina’s potential is used so that Ezeiza becomes again a place of reunion and hope and not a place of sorrow and farewell.
Ezeiza International Airport, where young Argentines emigrate (Adrián Escandar)
The international airport of Ezeiza, where young Argentines emigrate (Adrián Escandar).
Social plans, trade unionists
How would you promote a discussion on collective bargaining agreements and social plans?
A very deep transformation is needed. We believe that bread must be earned with the sweat of the brow. The idea of living off the backs of others is not on our agenda, except as a temporary remedy to misfortune. The life plan of living off others or welfare or state handouts is not on my agenda, nor on that of Republicans United or the Confederate Parties.
It sounds like an almost biblical idea?
Yes, absolutely. And this is for three reasons: one reason that has to do with the economy and mobilizing the resources available to the country; also for a civic reason, since those who are vassals or clients of power and of the organizations that profit from misery and poverty are not independent voters; and third because it has to do with morale and personal and family self-esteem. Children raised under the idea that one lives depending on the help of others do not have the motivation and energy to get ahead that is created in another moral context.
